you cannot see it from the road. >> is at a house or a mobile home >> it is a house. my name is alex murdaugh. >> okay, did you hear anything, or did you come home and find something? >> i came home. >> okay. >> no, ma'am. please hurry. >> can anybody out there see y you? [inaudible] [dog barking]

>> we just heard you say "i should have known." what are you referring to? >> i said i should have known. >> what were you referring to? >> i was referring to he got so many threats. did not take serious. think twice about. just telling him that we should have known. i don't specifically remember saying that, but i can completely hear myself saying that. >> okay. >> what kind of threats did you understand paul was receiving? >> i mean, paul got -- he got the most vile threats.

the stuff that was on social media. it was... you couldn't believe it. you couldn't believe it. it was so over the top. truthfully we did not think anything about it. it was just so crazy, that you know, people talking about what he was going to get and how they were going to do this and get him. it is stuff you really -- i mean, really we disregarded it because it was so over-the-top. thought it was so over the top. >> keep going, please. >> okay, what is her name?

>> maggie. maggie and paul. >> maggie is her name? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. when was the last time you talk to maggie? >> an hour and a half ago, probably two hours ago. >> what? >> okay, you said about two hours ago, you talk to them? >> yes, ma'am. >> you were asked the last time you saw them, and you said an hour and a half, two hours ago, and she followed up two hours ago. you just heard that? >> i did, and i said "approximately" to her question. >> when was the last time you saw them? maggie and paul.

>> right after i took a chicken from bubba. >> and the video we have seen has a time-stamp of 8:44:00 p.m. is that correct? >> that's right. >> was a shortly after 8:44? >> it was not long after that. you can hear when bubba gets the chicken. it was not long after i took the chicken from him. >> and then you called 911. there are records of that, but do you recall, 9:07, roughly before 9:07. >> i have seen the records and the transcript, yeah. >> the records of this. this is something innocent until the conversation with the 911 operator, correct? knowing everything we know now, wasn't roughly an hour and a

half the last time you saw them? >> it was. however long it took to get to this point, 10:10. however many you look exactly and see what this is, but it is between 10:00 and 10:15, so i had seen them around... 8:45. a little bit after. >> all right. please keep going. >> do you know what they were doing at all? >> no. i talked to her in person. >> you talked to her in person? >> please hurry. >> we still have some questions, okay? you are sure they are not breathing?

is he moving at all? your son. you said that she was shot in the head, but what about your son? >> they are not -- neither one of them is moving. >> what is your telephone number? >> 942-1227. i'm going back to my house. just in case. >> did you go back to the house and get a gun? >> i did. >> is this the gun that you got? and how did you load this gun? what did you load it with? >> the best i can remember, i believe i got it off the pool table where you heard there was some other guns.

i am not positive, but i am pretty sure it was on the pool table. what have been the first place i came to you. i know i was grabbing the first gun i got. i grabbed a handful of shells that i could get my hands on. i know the gun had a shell in it. that i loaded. and i know i had a few shells. >> have you seen in this case where there is the 16 gauge shell put in the gun? >> i have seen in the record and heard in the testimony. >> is that a 16 gauge shotgun? >> it is not. >> so why did you put a 16 gauge shell in it? >> i obviously did not realize what i was doing. i know you cannot put a 16 gauge shell in that gun -- i have been hunting my whole life. i know you cannot do that. it is not a mistake -- it is not

a mistake i would have made under any circumstances other than -- >> why did you go back to the house and get a gun? >> i just didn't know. i didn't know. i mean... so i did. i don't know. i did not know if somebody was still out there. i don't know. i guess i didn't know. >> please keep going. >> does anything look out of place?

>> man... not particularly, really, no, ma'am. >> okay. >> go back to where he said he is going to his house to get a gun, just a few seconds. ten seconds. >> i know you are absent, mr. murdaugh, but i don't want you to have a gun out when the officers get there, okay? >> just to get a gun, just in case. >> what is your telephone number? >> 942-1227. i am going back to my house to get a gun, just in case. going to my house. >> you said you were about

100 yards from the house. >> that's what i said. >> wasn't much further than that? >> as you have heard in the testimony, it's 1100-something feet. >> okay. >> i said it was 100 yards. >> you are wrong about your estimate. >> sure, i was wrong. >> does anything look out of place? >> man... not particularly, really, no, ma'am. >> okay. >> i know you're upset, mr. murdaugh, but i don't want you to have a gun out whenever

the officers get there. >> my son was threatened four months and months. all the time. >> do you know who was threatening your son? [inaudible] >> you do not know the name of who was threatening him at all? >> my son knows. >> your son knows who was threatening him? okay.

>> all right. i'm going back down there. >> rule to the next tape. >> 22 hours, 13 minutes, 58 seconds.

>> is it close, ma'am? >> i have multiple people coming out there to you. >> okay, can you do me a favor, mr. murdaugh? can you put the flashers on on your car? >> do you have your flashers on for me, mr. murdaugh? >> yes. >> i don't want you to touch

them out all. in case they can get any kind of evidence, okay? >> i wanted to see if they were breathing. >> now that the second clip starts, 10:13, and you are asked -- you tell them don't touch them. have you touched them by then? >> yes. >> is that what you told the 911 operator? >> it is. >> can you say exactly six, 7 minutes, when you actually touched them? >> i know w i touched maggie.

i touched maggie several times. but i think i did not -- i don't think i touched paul but two times. >> did you touch one or both of them before you got in the car and drove back to the house? >> yes. yeah. >> one or both? >> both. both. >> all right, keep going. >> i just don't want you to move anything, just in case of evidence, okay? okay.

did your son -- you said that he had been threatened. did your son make reports of the saddle? >> yes, ma'am. >> he did? >> you informed of the 911 operator that paul had made reports of these threats. what are you referring to? >> i just know that it had been reported. i don't know that -- i don't believe there was any formal police reports or that type of thing. it had been reported. it was well known. >> okay. >> were you saying he had filed some official reports when he said yes? >> i have never thought that there was a police report or some form of report like that, no. >> do you know whether or not he made some type of report on campus?

>> i know he didn't. >> what do you know? >> i know that there was a time when he was asked to come meet with -- i can't even remember the woman's name now. but... i appreciated it so much, and i never thought i would forget it. >> the counseling services? >> yeah, he was the dean of students, but anyway, he reached out and wanted to talk to him. at first we were concerned. you know. why do they want to talk to him? even -- i believe i have paul come talk to you about that because we were concerned. what do they want to talk to him about? when paul and jim got there, it turned out that it was really just...

i mean, they were wanting to make sure he was okay. with, you know, just make sure he was okay. and i know that they were aware of the threats or some level of threats, so, yeah. it already had been reported to them. >> keep going. >> what is your son's name? >> paul. >> paul? >> ma'am, i need to call some of my family. >> okay. whenever you see the officer or the medics, can you put your gun in your vehicle for me? >> absolutely. >> put it on your vehicle so

that they can see you, okay? you have the flashers on for me? >> i do. >> okay. all right. whenever you see them, put your gun up for me, okay? >> okay. >> how old is your son? >> 22. >> we are getting them out there to you, okay? all right. >> so, alec, did you call family after you got off the call with 911? with the operator? >> yes. >> did you call? >> i called my brother, randy. i called my brother, john, and i know i tried to call rhoda. rhoda is not family, but i called randy and john. i called randy and john.

>> you just mentioned rhoda? >> rogan. i called him ro-ro. >> why did you try to call rogan? >> i mean, rogan -- rogan's house was like -- i don't know -- maybe two and a half miles, three and a half miles. i mean, rogan was like family. >> did you think he was the closest person? >> i just wanted somebody to be out there. >> how do you see in rogan's name on paul's phone in any way that night? >> no. >> you called.

did rogan answer? >> no. >> did you try multiple times? >> looking at these records, i believe that i did, but i believe some of those are like face time calls that are to rogan. i am trying to call him, but i don't believe that was me actually. i did not face time people. so i think that is -- even me trying to call him and hitting face time. that is hitting buttons. hitting the phone. >> the state's exhibit 519, which is the condensed timeline done by the agents, there is an indication, alec, that 10:22, you opened a group text stating "she brought the heat from ime

boys." where you reading text messages? >> i heard them ask that question. i can promise you i was not reading any text messages. >> there is also an entry that says add 10:40:00 p.m., you did a google search or a safari browser search while your wife and son are laying dead on the ground. did you do that? >> no. that is a restaurant that we ate at a lot of times we got takeout from, so i'm assuming it was in my search history coming up. obviously i was trying to call people or dialing, and i hit that. i was not doing any google searches. >> one of the persons that you

googled a wedding photographer? >> there is a guy named brian white. i saw that on the call log. he was in my -- what do you call it? my contacts. a videographer that i have used in cases. i have not used them in two years. he is a good guy, but we are not personal friends, self i certainly was not calling him. >> so were you... what does that indicate to you that those actions are on the phone? how do you account for that? >> obviously they are unintentional. i'm doing something with my phone, but i am not trying to call those people. i'm not doing a google search for any whaley's restaurant, and i am certainly not reading any texts. >> i want to ask you -- >> ladies and gentlemen, a

break. about 10 minutes. stay put for a minute. ten minute break. >> 45 minutes. >> harris: all right, so we are going to take a break because this trial is taking about a ten minute break, and what we have just heard there, fortunately, we have doug collins to talk about it. a defense attorney who actually, since we've been sitting here on the "outnumbered" couch, has really done more than the defense attorney was doing. we are "outnumbered," of course. i'm harris faulkner. my cohost, kayleigh mcenany joining us on the counts today. rachel campos duffy pure fox news contributor leslie marshall. and again, former georgia congressman, doug collins, also a criminal defense attorney. boy, this was like you giving us

a primer on how to defend this case. what have been some of the things that have stuck out? and it has been hours of testimony now. >> doug: one of the things you are trying to do there, they have had everything. they have presented their case for the most part, but now you've got to deal with this is a real human being, someone that they are portraying is willing to kill their life and son, and one of the pieces that we talked about there, some of the inconsistencies. is there a reason for an inconsistency? they talked about the face time issue. all of us had had our phone and gone to a face time issue. have you ever done this by mistake before? that is what they are trying to do. >> let me ask you about that because there were several of these instances. google searches. you were like everything is time stamped. he's going to have to substantiate did you googled a restaurant? what did you do?

>> doug: i surely would not be doing this -- she sort of implied it was a mistake. so i think they are trying to portray here someone who does not know what he's doing. he is really upset. they play the 911 tapes. they are trying to build him as a sympathetic figure and someone who found their family members dead and a very bad situation. they also were playing the discussion about the threats against us on. which i think it is an issue because they said now you told her about this. how did you do this? so again, laying out there that somebody else could have been involved in this. >> harris: and it is critical too, right? rachel, i think it would be. there has to be beyond a reasonable doubt that anybody -- no one else could have done it, so when you have a contaminated crime scene, and everybody has talked about that, from

attorneys we have had on as guests to people who live in that area, when you have a contaminated crime scene, it can wipe away the ability to figure out whether or not someone could have done it. that's why you hear the dispatcher, we just do not want you touching and moving a lot of things and there is some evidence. >> rachel: this is an interesting case. i have not been following it as closely -- i have been fascinated to know why everyone is so fascinated, frankly. he keeps saying i did not intentionally kill my wife or my son. it is like who talks like that? it is very odd. i don't know if it's because he's a lawyer and he does that. most humans do not -- >> harris: so what does that say to you? i could see the physical -- you were like what? nobody talks like that. >> rachel: nobody talks like that. to me it sounds like he is a lawyer, and he knows a lot about

hall the whole system works, and he's trying to cover his basis, but i am not sure that that is the right to act with the jury. >> harris: as he watched us, leslie, and i don't know how glued you have been to this case, but i do know that you do a very successful call in radio show, looking at us, trying to solve it on their own -- >> leslie: there is so much. i think they are trying to stay a step ahead and come down on cross. doug and i agreed on way too much in the green room. this and other things we might get to talk about. >> harris: probably call in to radio show. [laughs] >> leslie: hi, this is david. [laughs] but they need to put a human face on him. we all know it's very risky to put your client on the witness stand, but this is a lawyer, and lawyers can make incredible witnesses. i'm very excited to see what

happens on cross. before you see this man, the jury and those of us in the jury of public opinion are looking at there is a lot going on here. allegedly hiring somebody to shoot you in the ahead, fired from a law firm. you have an addiction. you're broke. your wife was leaving. the list goes on and on. everyone says you did it. that is what it points to. but this is not a slam-dunk, and by putting him on the stand, they are showing him as a human. you see a man crying. you see the tears flowing. you see the emotion. i love what you said during the break here, that they are watching him while they are playing those tapes, so we are not just hearing him, but we are seeing the reaction. >> harris: kayleigh, the moment we started watching together, it was interesting. you pointed out all the inconsistencies in the story, but this humanized him. are you having a bifurcated reaction? >> kayleigh: absolutely, which

i think was the entire intent of the defense. before i heard from alex murdaugh, tax evasion, financial crimes, you know, weird, tragic death on the boat of that young girl in the housekeeper appeared there's a lot. it is easy to convict in the court of public opinion, but the moment he took the stand and you saw the emotion describing in graphic detail that i don't want to repeat about what his son looked like, he was incon inconsolable. he could not speak. he described the way his son liked, and as a parent, you got to resonate in some way without emotion. when he was asked to describe his son, you said you could not be around him and not have a good time as he is completely heartbroken, but then you get to the moment where he has asked did you lie to the agent about where you work? i did. i did lie to them. he said multiple times that he lied, so you begin to wonder is

this just best con artist of all time? >> harris: you know, we want to hear part of what he was saying about what kayleigh is describing. the moment where he denied killing his wife and son. let's watch. >> on june 7th, 2021, did you take this gun or any gun like it and shoot your son, paul, in the chest in the room at your property? >> no, i did not. >> mr. murdaugh, did you take this gun's or any gun like it and blow your son's brains out on june 7th or any day, any time? >> no, i did not. >> mr. murdaugh... did you take a blackout, such as this, and fire it into your wife

maggie's leg, torso, or any part of her body? >> no, i did not. >> did you shoot a 300 blackout into her head, causing her de death? >> i did not shoot my way for my son any time. ever. >> harris: talk to me about the legal efficacy of having him as an attorney, as rachel pointed out, he would probably be more shrewd than the rest of us in the words that he might say, but also just not strong denial. >> it was a strong denial. i was looking at leslie when his attorney said "blew your son's head off." that was powerful language. it evokes a reaction from him. he said no, i did not do that. that was an interesting play on words. back to the intentional part, remember how he is charged. intentionality is part of some

of these charges, and i'm not saying he is using that word -- but you brought it up, so okay maybe that's why he said i would not intentionally kill. i do not think it is an affirmation that he did, but it is interesting that he is using a word that is part of -- >> kayleigh: maybe there is a cultural divide, did you -- i don't know -- no, of course i did not blow my wife's head off. no, i did not -- i mean, yes, there is a certainty about it, but i see a lack of a motion even there. >> harris: and that is interesting because that is what the roll of the dice is. >> rachel: better not have a latina on the jury. >> harris: how we react, it is a human thing. i don't know that it is always cultural, but attorneys are going to know. we are all going to react differently. as moms, we are going to have a

different reaction, seeing his son on the ground. as human beings, we are going to be different. maybe a play as well -- i call that strong. you call that strong. you wanted to yell. because we are individual people. >> leslie: just follow me for a second. they have these two twins. have you seen this? they are watching whitney houston. i am not going to sing. don't worry. and then the two twins jumped. i have watched it seriously like ten times. it's hysterical. you and i jumped when the defense attorney described it as "blowing brains out." either i am a latina, or we are all on the same page, his wording, that it was different than at least three of us sitting on the couch. >> kayleigh: reaction is one question, but ultimately what is his motivation? putting your mind and the mind

of a criminal, why did he engage in insurance fraud? because he wanted to leave money to his son. he wanted to enrich himself. why would he murder his wife and his son? what is the answer to that question? i think the prosecution has to answer that question. >> harris: you're right. i want to set something up. i think they were like 100 instances of financial fraud and other things that have to do with crimes committed potentially, allegedly against people in his life. you know, all dealing with mo money, if you will. all of that, according to the judge today, because this has been going on for about the last 24 hours or so, they've been considering whether or not they would put him on the stand, and even up until this morning, the judge said 254-year-old alec murdaugh, if you're going to take the stand, you got a few

more minutes. and we were all watching "america's newsroom," knowing that at some point he is going to come out and make that decision. i'm going to testify. i want to testify. that was following all the talks and everything else. the judge said today everything is fair game. you are right. you cannot hide behind oh, well, my son had that boating accident, and the young victim died another people work hit when he was drunk driving the boat, and there were threats against him. eventually, he's got to answer for the charges against him. >> kayleigh: there was an evidentiary decision that i believe the prosecution -- it was a blow to them, allowing in some of those financial crimes. how much of this will come in? you may know. we know about the young girl who was killed. we know about the housekeeper, but the financial crimes, part of that will come in. how much will the jury actually

here that we are here assessing? >> doug: the events, if they want to bring it up, they have to measure is this going to help me or hurt me? that's prosecution has the same problem. they have the beyond a reasonable doubt standard. all the defense has to do is get one or two jurors to say i cannot make sense of this, and i am not willing to send him for however they charge this case. i want to bring back something -- his background of what he has been through. his drug addiction. but then there is one thing, when we just talked about his reaction. and i am not giving an excuse are not an excuse. it's been two years. it's been two years. think about this, for any of us, now sitting there, knowing he is in the spotlight. there is a numbing effect that does happen. >> but he not numb when he described -- >> doug: and i think -- i just

want to be careful here. >> kayleigh: i think that the financial crimes speak to somebody who is not trustworthy to begin with. but also -- and again, i admit i have not followed this case as closely as a lot of other people have. is there any other person in the sphere of the mother and son's life that would have possibly committed -- >> harris: that's a great question. that's why they wanted a scene that would be a lot less contaminated them the crime scene that they got. those cops are walking all over everything. when i first sat down with you, we were off-camera at that point because we were still in the trial, which we are told that we will go back momentarily. we are starting to die just a little bit of what everybody else in the courtroom has been able to, so let me get to this point. when you first sat down, you said he is going to be different now than he was two years ago, but the facts will not be any different. >> doug: he still got to

overcome that. they have made the conscious decision that whatever he can offer is going to be enough -- >> rachel: do you think you did it? >> doug: 's i am not going to make an opinion on it. i want to say -- can i just say this -- there's a lot of things -- this is exactly what our system up to look like. a prosecutorial team doing their job. we hear this all the time. that is the purpose of this. this is to protect -- >> harris: that is such a great point. >> doug: he may be a liar but not a murderer. >> harris: the reason that he lied to the cops was that he had been taking oxycodone pain killer, he was addicted at that time, and he did not trust anybody. he felt paranoid. using the word "paranoia." but he has lied about a lot of things. i don't know the length of ti time -- >> rachel: he lied about being in the kennel if you believe the

witness. this is being in the kennel prior to the murder. murdaugh denied it. then ten other witnesses said that as his voice, so we are watching this in isolation, but all these other witnesses who say that's all i. >> leslie: to your point, this has been a couple years now, but we all know what a jury is looking for, and they are -- we all know that line. there are jurors sitting there,, and you are lying then. are you lying to us now? >> doug: it is the emotional part. he has had emotions through this. he has had the emotion in there. like we just said a minute ago, i can lie about everything else. i have heard this. i may be a bad person, but i did not do this. >> harris: some of his character witnesses on his behalf, they have said the very same thing. in fact, there was a potential victim of one of his financial

crimes that said he did awful things when we were together, when we were partners, but it doesn't mean he committed mu murder. judge clifton newman has called the cord back in order now. we are watching the double murder trial of alec murdaugh. let's watch. >> i got blood on my fingertips. >> can you differentiate whether it was maggie or paul? >> probably both. there was so much blood. >> it turns out there was a drop of blood on the steering wheel, on the suburban. do you know how that got there? >> if it was fresh, i put it there. if it was not fresh, maggie

drove my car all the time. i assume it got there from me touching maggie and then touching the steering wheel that night. >> i think maybe there were possibly blood on the gun. maybe not. do you know if you transferred blood onto anything else? >> is maggie's blood is on that gun, i put it there. maggie did not really full with guns other than to put them up. >> did you submit to a gsr examination that night? >> that's what i was talking about earlier. i testified about it. >> where your hands were swabbed. >> that's right. >> and your hands were collected by an agent or someone else. >> that's correct.

>> it turns out there is gsr on your shirt, on your shorts. did you handle this gun? >> this is item 22. >> i basically add that with me until i put it up against my c car. when the police officer -- i think it was mr. green. i put it against my car. >> i think they had testified that -- was he meticulous about cleaning his guns? >> paul-paul? no. when he cleaned it, he was meticulous about it. but it was far and few between when he actually cleaned them.

>> your shirt when they're testing and analysis, and you were -- part of this case provided the results of that, were you not? >> yes, sir. i was not provided it at the time. i have seen all of these rec records. >> just let me ask you, did you get on your shirt -- high velocity blood spatter from being within distance of the shooting of maggie or paul? >> there is no way that i had high velocity blood spatter on me. >> had you seen reports that said that at some point in time? >> i have seen reports that have said that. >> just to be clear, were you anywhere in the vicinity when

paul and maggie were shot? >> i was nowhere near paul and maggie when they got shot. >> after they collected your clothing that night, at the main residence, did you remember changing it? do you remember what you changed into? >> do i remember? i know i change clothes, and i have learned since then what i had on. but i don't remember that at a all. but i understand i have on athletic shorts and a t-shirt. >> other people have talked about this. i'm not going to repeat it, but where did you spend the night, or where did you go to after leaving moselle?

when you left for the evening. >> we went to my mom and dad's house, and we stayed there. >> who went with you? >> i believe that bus and brooklyn and i rode together. john marvin might have been with us. i know john marvin stayed there with us. i don't remember if he rode in the same car, but i know brooklyn. i know that for a fact. >> the next morning, what did you do? we are talking about daylight hours on june 8th. >> we basically got up and came back to moselle. >> do you remember roughly what time? >> i don't remember. i don't remember what time. there are things i remember about that time, but i don't remember exactly what time we left.

>> we will get to this in more detail, but during the period of time, is it hard to remember times? what times things started or stopped, how long it took? >> it is definitely hard to remember now, looking at these timelines and all these records, it sure helps, but to just do it off the top of my head is very difficult. >> we will get to more of that. when you went back to moselle on the morning of june the eighth, do you know if you took a shower there or it took shower at alameda? >> i know we took a shower at moselle. we basically got up and went to moselle. maggie's mom and dad -- because

>> they were there? >> they were coming. to see them. we got up. we got up from alameda, and we left and went to moselle. >> and do you even recall coming in and searching the house for anything? on the eighth. >> i knew that -- i knew that they were doing it, yeah. i knew they were doing it. but i don't remember -- i was not out in that gun room and seeing all the video and all that. but i knew that they were coming in there. we made the house available for them to come in there. so -- i mean, i cannot tell you

details, but yeah, i remember it. >> you at one point -- anywhere, anytime -- >> i said they could do anything anywhere, anytime that that they wanted to. anything to do with me, my property, my cars. i would get my law firm on them. they had full -- whatever they wanted, they were welcome to. >> and the did you have any discussion with david owen or anybody about consenting to general motors to get that off the car? >> every time that i talked to david owens, i would ask him about getting onstar data and gps data from phones. >> why was it important for you

to get gps data from the phones? >> to confirm what i was saying, what i did. gps. you know. at that point in time, i knew that maggie's phone had been taken, and i knew that my suburban and my phone and maggie's phone never crossed paths. and that was extremely important to me. i asked about it every single time we talked. every single time. >> speaking of maggie's phone, did you know her password to her phone? >> yes, i knew her password. >> did you know the password to her computer? >> yes. >> did she know your password? >> yes. >> one maggie's phone was

located on the side of the road, did you provide the password to her phone? >> i did. i think i actually provided it to john marvin, but i'm the one who gave it to him. >> right. >> your knowledge that maggie has these location services on her phone, she used them frequently? >> all the time. one of maggie's things that she liked to do was -- there is that app, find my friends, you can see what other people are doing, they can see what you are doing. maggie loved me, bus, paul-paul, brooklyn, grandma, marion, the

three girls. lizzie. there were a few others, but the people that were closest to her, she had them all. she loved to look at the phone and see where people work, and she loved to surprise you. let's say you're at walmart, she looks on there, she would love to text you give me a tv from walmart or something. because she would follow you and see where you were. she used at all the time. so, you know, i just knew that there would be gps data on maggie's phone. >> alec, when you were being interviewed on the night of junr understanding as to why they were interviewing you?

why were you being interviewed? >> from june 7th to june 10th? >> your honor -- >> what's the question again? >> what is his understanding of why he was being interviewed on the night of june the seventh and again on june the 10th. >> the basis for the interruption? what do you mean? >> his understanding -- not what he said. >> well, he goes to the state of mind. that is what it goes to. >> sustained. >> why was it important to you to be able to get data from the suburban, data from your phone,

data from maggie's phone? >> at that point in time, i knew since i was the person found paul-paul and maggies, that i was a suspect. they kept talking about the circle, but i knew that it was very important for me to find that, to get that. >> what was your belief as to that information? what would it have done for you? >> there is no question that it would demonstrate that i could not have done this. >> and when was the data from a general motors off of that suburban finally obtained? >> it was either this past saturday or the saturday before that, according to what was said

in this courtroom. >> during this trial. >> absolutely. to your knowledge, was gps data ever able to be located off of maggie's phone? >> not just to my knowledge. it was not able to be gotten. the testimony was in here. that it could not be gotten. and it only went back to ju june 9th. the day before that was erased. on maggie's phone. >> now, starting june 8th, when -- at moselle, did a lot of people come to support you, the with you? on june 8th? >> june 8th, like the next day,

yes, sir. a lot of people. >> you mentioned maggie's parents and family came as well. >> yes, sir. >> from that moment, june 8th, when friends, family came to moselle and you met with them, where you left alone by any of your family members? the rest of that week. >> no. i was attached to buster. at the hip. but, i mean... >> what happened --

>> what happened on june june the 10th? besides being interviewed by celeste. >> my dad died. my dad passed. >> where did you stay, and with whom did you stay on the night of june 8th, the night of june the ninth, the night of june the tenth? >> on the night -- you asked me to start on the eighth? >> the eighth, yes, sir. >> starting on the eighth, i stayed with buster every night. and as long as brooklyn was there, i stayed with buster and brooklyn. but we stayed with -- we stayed -- i'm pretty sure that beginning on the eighth -- i know the seventh we stayed at alameda. on the eighth, we started staying at john marvin and lizzie is at greenfield.

>> how far? >> it is no distance. did john mar sin vin and his wife stay there as well? >> john and lizzie stayed there, and their kids, bus, brooklyn and i, i know bubba and -- well, lizzie's mama and daddy, and my daddy's best friend -- i believe they came before he passed, i know they came after he passed and stayed there. >> and how many nights do you

recall staying there at greenfield? >> so, i stayed at greenfield -- the 7th was a monday, i stayed tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday and sunday at greenfield. i know that for a fact. >> and maggie and paul's funeral was saturday, is that right? >> i heard that in this courtroom say it was saturday, but -- >> memorial service? >> funeral was on friday. >> it was on friday. i know that for a fact, too. >> and then your father's funeral is on sunday? >> my father's funeral was on sunday, and it was my -- my father's funeral, i forget the term -- but sunday -- that's when, that's when we put

paul-paul and mags, that's when we buried them. we didn't bury them when we had the service on friday. because i don't think they were done -- that's when we buried them along with my dad. on sunday. >> and alec, what did you do the following week, that monday, tuesday, wednesday? >> um, starting when now? >> so the day after your dad's funeral. >> all right, monday, um, i went -- i went to grandma and papa ts in sommerville. >> where did you stay monday night? >> we stayed